Re: Wow!

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Posted by bj on November 13, 1999 at 06:43:40:

In Reply to: Re: Wow! posted by Steve Plever on November 12, 1999 at 23:03:09:

: Here's a time when I'll agree with you on a number of points, JB, and still use my real name.

: 1) Bulletin board culture -- this BB says it is for on-line handicapping discussion, and deleting the sniping would help foster that. Those attacking JB's proposal should check out the competitor's site -- where most of the posts actually are about handicapping, especially Sheet reading. (I concede it is not quite as action-packed as "TG picks suck"/"no, you suck" stuff)

: 2) Free speech -- JB's totally right. He owns the board, so it would infringe on his right of free expression to force him to transmit speech he objects to. (Don't take my word for it -- ask the ACLU.)

: 3) Misrepresentations of TG's handicapping record -- People doing that deserve to have their posts deleted. Of course, you know I feel that posting the real ROI is the best way to solve this problem (and would take less TG time than this debate). A consumer rights stance would say that you should be obligated to post the ROI (and so should your competitor Hardoon on his phone line). Just like mutual funds have to. But TG isn't claiming long-term profits, and no one is forcing customers to buy the picks. So guys, if the picks don't help you win, stop whining and don't buy them. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't come up with winners on your own, frankly, you don't deserve to cash.

: 4) TG / Ragozin issues --- On a post on the Ragozin site a few weeks before the BC, someone asked if Rag #s were getting lower as they appeared to be doing on TG. Friedman addressed the issue, but only in terms of Ragozin #s. He said commenting on others' figures would violate his own rules for the board. He took the high road.
: JB -- you say you have a recent example where Friedman attacked you. I guess I missed it. I check out that site just about every day and haven't seen Friedman even mention you or your product for a long, long time. But I'm not calling you a liar -- for all I know, Friedman got mad and attacked you, then thought better of it and deleted both his post and yours. If so, that was the right thing to do.

: It doesn't look like there are any attacks on you posted there now. The Ragozin board currently has messages posted going back to August -- I scanned through and couldn't find any such thing. I'm not engaged in any cover up -- years ago, I took them (and you) to task for stooping to an insult war.

: Regarding the general tenor of the Ragozin board, there is lots of disagreement there, but mostly about Sheet pattern interpretations and other handicapping issues. Not sure what you mean by a lack of "difficult questions." "Who's gonna win the BC" turned out to be the most difficult question of all, and there were many posts on it. Deleting messages that boost the competing product (yours) means there's a lot less of the bickering that has come to dominate your site. I was encouraged to see that you might adopt a similar policy. Go for it. You've got nothing to lose but your "negative rhetoric."

: But as for trying to dump the negative rhetoric on another site (your suggestion that your customers go post nasty messages on the Rag board), that doesn't sound like a Tom Paine approach. More like Animal House.

**** You make several valid points here - and i can't disagree with most of them . I also realize as Jerry says it's his board and he has every right to remove any posting he deems inappropriate. TG does not OWE anyone free speech on their board .
The reason i asked Jerry to reconsider his censorship was that in my opinion TG has always taken on all comers - and responded in kind .
In this same spirit they post their picks the following day - and they don't remove the o-fers .
In my opinion that takes guts and confidence ,the competition doesn't seem to have that .
This practice also leaves TG open to sniping and slams , and i'm sure most of that is done by people with an agenda who didn't even buy the picks - but so what - let'em post and we'll shoot'em down .
I guess a just find TG's approach more daring and interesting than Ragozin's board which is sanitized and resembles PLEASANTVILLE . bj

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