Your Ask The Experts ID
is separate from your
Order Online Account ID
 Race of the Week:  2023 Breeders' Cup Days Final Figures Santa Anita 3-4 November 2023  • 1 Specials Available
Order Online
Buy TG Data
Complete Menu of
TG Data products
Simulcast Books
Customize a Value
Package of Select
TG Data
Sheet Requests
Order The Last Figure for Any Horse
Free Products
Redboard Room
Download and Review previous days' data.
Race of the Week
With detailed comments
ThoroTrack
Email notification when your horse races
Information
Introduction
For newcomers.
Samples and Tutorials
For Horsemen
Consulting services and Graph Racing
Sales Sites
Where to buy TG around the country
Archives
Historical races and handicapping articles
Handicapping
Hall of Fame
Major handicapping contest winners
Home Page
Always Dreaming (2382 Views)
Posted by: FrankD. (IP Logged)
Date: May 06, 2017 09:58PM

I have to start a new string as I cannot in good conscience join the BEAST band wagon yet.

Congrats to the connections and to the horse. They overcame some adversity, changed up the normal TAP Derby approach and Johnny V. put him where he needed to be on a biased track. He faced some pressure, the fractions were fast early and he drew off never leaving the outcome in doubt.

AD had 3 things in his favor to get the blanket of roses.

1) He was not in the TAP barn as a 2 yr old. He didn't debut at the Spa running a
TG 3. He only had 2 starts, he was not thrown to the wolves ala Syndergard after a gut wrenching Champagne tossed into the BC juvenile.

2) He was babied like no other TAP 3yr old on the Derby trail ever has been before. A Tampa Wednesday maiden breaker with JV making the trip north to ride him against nothing. Then not sent right in to the FOY as per normal MO. Todd got PJ Campo to write a race for him, that Alw race was not in the GP condition book.

There is a lot of debate about the 2 pre Florida Derby figures. Miff who we all know and most have a lot of respect for his conversion of numbers per TG, Rags & Beyer swore that TG was off in the Tampa race per the others. By his conversion of all figs and putting into TG terms had him 10-5-5-8-1. Still not a pretty sheet by any stretch of the imagination, especially heading into The Derby.
Sekrah by whatever method of subtraction etc... questioned both of the figs. I don't buy random figure adjustment, it's a tricky slope.... I talk with Miff and Jimbo quite a bit and both have been the biggest pain in JB's butt about questioning his figs over the years. One a bit more eloquent than the other.

The Tampa track is a quirky one, it's a bit deeper than GP and a lot of top outfits have chosen to race and train over it building a foundation. I may question a ground loaded fig from time to time or ala Practical Joke trust my eyes more than the number is the number. I don't know anything about Tampa and the Alw race at Gulf was again against nothing on a windy day that produced the slowest raw times of the GP winter meet. So you can argue for a week about the 2 pre FL Derby races but the end result was still not a healthy developing 3 yr old pattern leading to a peak performance on the first Saturday in May. FL Derby, explosive race, BIG new top, visually impressive beating not so much.

So you have a non typical FL winter road to the Derby campaign by a Pletcher horse running a big top no matter how you put in perspective. A losing proposition to most and at the very least a suckers value of 9/2. The horse was handled with kid gloves, lightly raced, not tested and earned his big top with visual ease.

3)The Derby week weather and track maintenance was the final piece in this perfect Derby storm. Anyone who wants to question the overall inside not always speed bias of Oaks & Derby day better bring their A game to debate me about it...
Battle of Midway 2p all the way around following AD and LAL with Corey doing his best Calvin Bo-Rail imitation both ran a lot faster than they ever have before today. How JB does this stand alone race this year with weather is a mystery but I know enough of figure projections to back up the above line.

AD will be even money or less in 2 weeks. Maybe then we can determine Beast status....

Good luck,

Frank D.



Subject Written By Posted
Always Dreaming (2382 Views) FrankD. 05/06/2017 09:58PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1786 Views) TGJB 05/06/2017 11:09PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1404 Views) jp702006 05/06/2017 11:27PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1677 Views) jimbo66 05/07/2017 08:16AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1375 Views) jbelfior 05/07/2017 08:41AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1365 Views) TreadHead 05/07/2017 08:58AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1255 Views) Leamas57 05/07/2017 09:22AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1100 Views) albatross 05/07/2017 09:41AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1332 Views) jimbo66 05/07/2017 10:04AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1139 Views) jerry 05/07/2017 10:05AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1163 Views) ajkreider 05/07/2017 10:52AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1454 Views) bellsbendboy 05/07/2017 01:08PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1413 Views) TGJB 05/07/2017 02:58PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1084 Views) bellsbendboy 05/08/2017 10:28PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1091 Views) hellersorr 05/09/2017 12:29AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1161 Views) TGJB 05/09/2017 12:47AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1008 Views) FrankD. 05/09/2017 06:15AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1107 Views) richiebee 05/09/2017 08:38AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1030 Views) Furious Pete 05/09/2017 11:40AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1133 Views) FrankD. 05/09/2017 07:47PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1141 Views) big18741 05/07/2017 09:29AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1527 Views) FrankD. 05/07/2017 09:08AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1098 Views) belmont3 05/07/2017 10:23AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1158 Views) FrankD. 05/07/2017 11:18AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1310 Views) belmont3 05/07/2017 11:54AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1205 Views) Fairmount1 05/07/2017 02:35PM
Re: Always Dreaming (973 Views) boardedup 05/09/2017 02:48PM
Re: Always Dreaming (965 Views) Airnate012 05/09/2017 03:06PM
Re: Always Dreaming (983 Views) boardedup 05/09/2017 03:19PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1009 Views) Niall 05/09/2017 03:28PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1018 Views) Michael D. 05/09/2017 03:40PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1208 Views) Tavasco 05/09/2017 04:41PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1044 Views) TGJB 05/09/2017 05:57PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1040 Views) Tavasco 05/09/2017 07:00PM
Re: Always Dreaming (944 Views) TempletonPeck 05/09/2017 06:54PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1048 Views) boardedup 05/09/2017 10:07PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1089 Views) moosepalm 05/09/2017 10:46PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1013 Views) boardedup 05/10/2017 10:13AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1025 Views) Rich Curtis 05/10/2017 11:57AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1024 Views) TGJB 05/10/2017 12:48PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1129 Views) Furious Pete 05/10/2017 02:00PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1096 Views) TGJB 05/10/2017 02:08PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1059 Views) Furious Pete 05/10/2017 02:21PM
Re: Always Dreaming (995 Views) TGJB 05/10/2017 02:30PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1158 Views) Furious Pete 05/10/2017 02:32PM
Bias update Derby Weekend (1038 Views) Furious Pete 06/15/2017 04:38PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1039 Views) trwhis2 05/09/2017 11:16PM
Re: Always Dreaming (897 Views) hellersorr 05/10/2017 04:09PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1193 Views) jerry 05/07/2017 09:54AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1183 Views) T Severini 05/07/2017 06:49PM
Re: Always Dreaming (1271 Views) Furious Pete 05/07/2017 11:04AM
Re: Sheets Players (1255 Views) BitPlayer 05/07/2017 01:02PM
Bodemeister (1307 Views) T Severini 05/07/2017 05:47PM
Re: Bodemeister (1407 Views) TGJB 05/07/2017 05:49PM
Re: Bodemeister (1273 Views) T Severini 05/07/2017 05:54PM
Re: Bodemeister (1223 Views) Topcat 05/08/2017 08:07AM
Re: Bodemeister (1092 Views) T Severini 05/08/2017 05:41PM
Re: Bodemeister (1059 Views) Topcat 05/09/2017 09:23AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1206 Views) T Severini 05/09/2017 07:29AM
Re: Always Dreaming (1028 Views) T Severini 05/08/2017 11:46PM


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.

Thoro-Graph 180 Varick Street New York, NY 10014 ---- Click here for the Ask The Experts Archives.