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Re: Last Words? (1162 Views)
Posted by: TGJB (IP Logged)
Date: May 29, 2002 05:50PM

Alydar did a good job with this, which saves me some work. And of course, again, it’s not really you I’m speaking to, since you have no real interest in getting to the truth—if you did you would have joined the chorus asking Friedman to post the 13th (which they now have, and which I will be addressing shortly).

Numbered points are mine, not yours, except where indicated.

1- I make no assumptions, other than that prior figures of horses can be used to determine future figures horses run, and outcomes of races. I do this because it’s the premise, and that it works out in practice. Because you don’t make figures, this point eludes you, but Alydar did a pretty good job of explaining it. You can’t assign artificial (incorrect) figures for horses running in different races, at different distances, and different tracks, to have them run in a tight range, and ALSO have them running in a tight range when they come out of those different races and run against each other. It’s physically impossible unless you screw around with the relationships WITHIN the race, and the “tightness” confirms both the numbers you are assigning today and they numbers they are based upon. Spend one week making figures and you’ll get it.

2- Ragozin was first, and has tons of dogmatic rules concerning sprints/routes, changing tracks, etc. I came along, disavowed that stuff, and only make the one assumption, above. Good luck convincing anybody I’m the creationist.

3- (your 1)- Yeah, Bayakoa probably won a FM graded stake with a 19. Do you ever actually listen to yourself?

4- (your 2)- Pure nonsense, and you know it. The point is not the percentage of variability, but of net effect on final time, and re-casting the argument is disingenuous. The actual difference between variants was 3.6 points (not 5 or 6) for the grass races—a difference of right around 1% of the final time. That’s not a lot, and in this case we’re talking about a course that had been soaked by rain, and was now drying. Regardless of all underlying logic, however, everyone should look at the 5th and 7th races on Preakness day on Ragozin and TG, and draw their own conclusions.

5- (your 3)- Again, disingenuous, especially your granting “graded horses run better”. Not just better—more consistently near their tops. If you actually don’t know this, you’re a very bad handicapper.
What I said (and BOTH statements are in the 5/24 post) was, “every horse, in a graded stake race, ran at least 6 points off their top”, and “every horse in the field but one ran at least 6 points worse than his previous race.” i.e., bounced. BOTH ARE TRUE ON RAGOZIN—everyone can look at Ragozin’s Schaefer sheets and see for themselves. Again, even if you think any one older stake horse is 50/50 to run 6 points off his top (or bounce 6 points, either way)—and 50% is an astronomically high number considering how close to their tops stake horses run—the chance of all 6 doing it is 2%. Rather than taking a position that can’t be proved (like saying each one had an 80% chance) why not try one that can—take me up on the bet I offered.

6- (your 5)- As has been documented here (my lawyers letter to Ragozin after we taped Ragozin employees lying about us) the “dissing” that takes place is almost all by them, in the field, in private, where we are almost never in a position to respond. The only reason they don’t do it here is because we can respond. And calling my raising questions of figure methodology “dissing” is diss-ingenuous. You know better.



TGJB



Subject Written By Posted
Last Words? (2298 Views) David Patent 05/28/2002 10:51PM
Didn't we already talk science? (1306 Views) Treadhead 05/29/2002 12:10AM
Re: Didn't we already talk science? (1204 Views) JimP 05/29/2002 12:33AM
Re: Didn't we already talk science? (1115 Views) David Patent 05/29/2002 12:43AM
Re: Didn't we already talk science? (1149 Views) Treadhead 05/29/2002 01:11AM
Re: Didn't we already talk science? (1095 Views) TGJB 05/29/2002 03:27PM
Re: David, David, David. (1203 Views) Mall 05/29/2002 02:12AM
Re: David, David, David. (1205 Views) tegger 05/29/2002 03:39AM
Re: David, David, David. (1160 Views) Mark O'Keeffe 05/29/2002 04:58AM
Re: David, David, David. (1199 Views) Alydar in California 05/29/2002 08:23AM
Re: David, David, David. (1218 Views) David Patent 05/29/2002 04:28PM
Re: David, David, David. (1172 Views) Alydar in California 05/29/2002 05:02PM
Re: David, David, David. (1073 Views) David Patent 05/29/2002 05:35PM
Re: David, David, David. (1129 Views) TGJB 05/29/2002 06:11PM
Re: David, David, David. (1132 Views) David Patent 05/29/2002 07:18PM
Re: David, David, David. (1168 Views) JimP 05/29/2002 07:37PM
Re: David, David, David. (1097 Views) TGJB 05/29/2002 08:16PM
Re: David, David, David. (1091 Views) David Patent 05/30/2002 12:48AM
Re: David, David, David. (1157 Views) teekay 06/03/2002 08:17PM
Re: David, David, David. (1215 Views) mandown 05/29/2002 09:58PM
Re: David, David, David. (1123 Views) David Patent 05/30/2002 12:25AM
Re: David, David, David. (1073 Views) mandown 05/30/2002 02:46AM
Re: David, David, David. (1204 Views) David G. Patent 05/30/2002 03:48AM
Re: David, David, David. (1190 Views) Alydar in California 05/30/2002 09:29AM
Re: David, David, David. (1184 Views) Patrick Morgan 05/29/2002 05:03PM
Re: David, David, David. (1156 Views) Alydar in California 05/29/2002 05:15PM
Re: David, David, David. (1139 Views) Patrick Morgan 05/29/2002 05:38PM
Re: David, David, David. (1211 Views) Alydar in California 05/30/2002 10:25PM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1227 Views) Mall 05/30/2002 10:48PM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1101 Views) Alydar in California 05/31/2002 12:02AM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1185 Views) David G. Patent 05/31/2002 03:37AM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1265 Views) Alydar in California 05/31/2002 07:25AM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1105 Views) Alydar in California 05/31/2002 07:30AM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1153 Views) David G. Patent 05/31/2002 12:42PM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1207 Views) David G. Patent 05/31/2002 12:45PM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1126 Views) David G. Patent 05/31/2002 12:50PM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1266 Views) HP 05/31/2002 01:16PM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1115 Views) TGJB 05/31/2002 04:41PM
Re: jerry (1255 Views) superfreakicus 05/31/2002 05:34PM
Re: jerry (1127 Views) HP 05/31/2002 05:56PM
Re: jerry (1121 Views) David Patent 05/31/2002 06:02PM
Re: jerry (1172 Views) superfreakicus 05/31/2002 06:20PM
Re: jerry (1191 Views) superfreakicus 05/31/2002 06:32PM
Re: jerry (1079 Views) HP 05/31/2002 06:55PM
Re: jerry (1163 Views) Alydar in California 05/31/2002 07:35PM
Re: jerry (1081 Views) TGJB 05/31/2002 08:33PM
Re: jerry (1056 Views) Jason L. 05/31/2002 09:44PM
Re: jerry (1152 Views) Michael D. 05/31/2002 10:05PM
Re: jerry (1208 Views) Jason L. 05/31/2002 10:34PM
Re: jerry (1150 Views) TGJB 05/31/2002 11:06PM
Re: endless bitchy catfights (1163 Views) superfreakicus 06/01/2002 07:21AM
Re: jerry (1176 Views) Jason L. 06/01/2002 08:32PM
Re: jerry (1225 Views) TGJB 06/02/2002 04:13PM
Re: jerry (1325 Views) Jason L. 06/03/2002 07:40PM
Bill Clinton Medallion of Merit (1266 Views) Anonymous User 06/01/2002 03:15AM
Re: jerry (1150 Views) TGJB 05/31/2002 08:27PM
David: Two More Things To Think About (1129 Views) Mall 05/31/2002 08:42PM
Re: David: Two More Things To Think About (1043 Views) BrettFavre 05/31/2002 09:34PM
Re: David: Two More Things To Think About (1145 Views) tgab 05/31/2002 10:20PM
Re: David: Two More Things To Think About (1113 Views) TGJB 05/31/2002 11:04PM
Re: jerry (1201 Views) HP 05/31/2002 06:12PM
Re: Mild Dissent. (1151 Views) TGJB 05/31/2002 04:07PM
Re: alydar (1199 Views) superfreakicus 05/31/2002 04:37PM
Re: David, David, David. (1131 Views) Patrick Morgan 06/03/2002 11:53PM
Re: David, David, David. (1152 Views) Alydar in California 06/04/2002 07:37AM
Re: David, David, David. (1075 Views) TGJB 05/29/2002 03:15PM
Re: David, David, David. (1077 Views) TGJB 05/29/2002 03:10PM
track speed (1163 Views) nunzio 05/29/2002 11:37AM
Re: Last Words? (957 Views) HP 05/29/2002 01:20PM
Re: Last Words? (1162 Views) TGJB 05/29/2002 05:50PM


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