Okay Alydar, here is your quote, "Ragozin makes use of claiming race averages when trying to determine how fast horses were EXPECTED to run today. Do you trust these averages?" Now, was it an exaggeration to say that you don't believe in averages for figure making? Maybe a little, but not much (if these averages don't work then what averages do work?).

Look, both sides have been guilty of exaggerating the other's position, and I will try to put a stop to it on my part, as it really does not advance the discussion. The point was that we cannot seriously discuss standard deviations in regards to JB's numbers, when JB acknowledges that many of his numbers are generated, not based on a statistical analysis of a large number of data points, but based on assuming that horses tend to pair up their numbers in a particular race.

I have never said that JB is necessarily "wrong" in his methodology. If we all accept that there are "some" races that cannot be accurately determined by establishing a variant through statistical analysis, then JB's method is as good as any, maybe better for those races. I am just skeptical at the number of times these conditions exist, and that it works in the long run.

I am sure the tight line issue has given everyone a headache by now. I guess JB believes he has "destroyed" my argument. I don't seem to recall that. But, in any event, everyone's position is clear, so I don't see a lot of point beating that dead horse on a theoretical level. I do think it was helpful seeing the Wood and what happened afterward. For one thing, part of the tight line issue comes from the pure visual presentation and difference in scales between the products, which has absolutely nothing to do with figure making.

Alydar, I don't really understand your problem. Do you really think I am trying to harm JB's business? (If you need assurance, I am not.) Is this some epic moral battle? JB has seemed to be able to handle his own in defending his actions and decisions relative to Ragozin. I think it is a little disingenuous for him to compare his actions to Porsche improving on the Model T, when he previously worked for Ragozin. I stand by that. But, based on what he has said, it seems pretty clear that he did nothing unlawful (and even if he did, the statute of limitations ran out long ago). So, personally, I don't plan to discuss that issue anymore.