Until we have both transparency (good comments by Hovedy on this a couple of weeks ago) and serious attempts to catch people, conversations about this are at the same level as Mantle vs. Mays (at least for all those not measuring things with real data-- Miff's point about watching certain trainers get large groups of horses to move up on TG is on point). We need vets listed on the program, CO2 levels published, and samples frozen, just for starters.