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Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (920 Views)
Posted by: TGJB (IP Logged)
Date: February 06, 2003 01:31PM

Alydar,

Speed charts and par levels are two different things. I described how we used the speed charts, which have zero times for each distance based on a standard configuration (and which are adjusted for the average relationships between distances at that track, and used BY US only as a starting point), as well as time-per-point relationships (as in, 2 seconds at 6f = 10 points).

Par levels are made by figuring out the average winning figure for each class of race. Using these only lets you make rough figures, and is only useful when you are first starting your data base-- it's another example of a broad average. Once you have a significant data base of individual horses to work with, you are much better off basing your figures on the horses that ran on a specific card than on a broad average of all horses who run in those types of races in general-- obviously, you could be dealing with a strong or weak 10 claimer, etc., and you are using those horses to determine how fast the other horses are.

We use "mechanical" variants, as Ragozin used to call them, only to make my job easier-- the first step is to apply a claimer derived variant to the day simply because it usually gets the day within a few points of where it should be, meaning the numbers I have to add and subtract in my head as I do the day are smaller. We do not rely on the par levels in any other way, and I would point out that tying your figures to mechanical variants "anchors" your figures-- if racehorses as a group are getting better or worse over a period of time you can't know it, making comparisons from one generation to another impossible. You have already determined that 10 claimers are the same forever, etc.

In the example you gave (which is pretty much the most common single way a race comes out), it definitely can be solid if the 2-3-4 horses run numbers very tight to their histories (meaning, pair up last number, run exactly their top, etc.). Think about the alternatives-- if you give the race faster, you are giving the winner an even freakier number, and the 2-3-4 horses faster than you want to give them. If you give the race slower, the winner will look better, but 6 other horses will look worse. This, by the way, is almost exactly the situation that came up when War Emblem ran his first big one last year-- we gave him the number rather than have a whole field of good 3 year olds behind him collapse, and Ragozin went the other way. War Emblem paired the number we gave him EXACTLY in the Illinois Derby.

The sentence about my understanding how Ragozin makes figures better than Friedman does was edited, but I think I got my point across. Speaking of which, you neglected to ask me the most obvious question raised by the post you are responding to.



TGJB



Subject Written By Posted
Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (1722 Views) TGJB 02/04/2003 07:42PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (831 Views) Alydar in California 02/04/2003 10:36PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (795 Views) TGJB 02/04/2003 11:00PM
Ford to NY: Drop Dead (837 Views) Alydar in California 02/04/2003 11:18PM
Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (885 Views) Alydar in California 02/05/2003 05:34AM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (921 Views) TGJB 02/05/2003 02:47PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (903 Views) Alydar in California 02/06/2003 02:33AM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (920 Views) TGJB 02/06/2003 01:31PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (808 Views) Alydar in California 02/06/2003 03:04PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (864 Views) Alydar in California 02/06/2003 08:26PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (772 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 02:33PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (836 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 02:38PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (885 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 02:48PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (828 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 03:07PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (859 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 03:57PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (840 Views) Silver Charm 02/07/2003 03:10PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (899 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 03:22PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (911 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 04:07PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (953 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 04:19PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (816 Views) Marc At 02/07/2003 04:35PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (888 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 05:10PM
Re: Chilukki: (not really) (919 Views) supey 02/08/2003 04:08AM
Re: Chilukki: (not really) (865 Views) TGJB 02/08/2003 12:27PM
Re: some comedian (888 Views) son of supes 02/08/2003 01:25PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (935 Views) thomas 02/07/2003 11:26PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (779 Views) TGJB 02/08/2003 12:17PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (905 Views) thomas 02/09/2003 10:01PM
Re: Chilukki: Hard Cases Make Bad Law (852 Views) TGJB 02/10/2003 11:11AM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (792 Views) Silver Charm 02/05/2003 11:27AM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (849 Views) Alydar in California 02/05/2003 02:00PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (866 Views) HP 02/05/2003 02:04PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (810 Views) Silver Charm 02/05/2003 02:14PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (801 Views) Alydar in California 02/05/2003 02:25PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (792 Views) Silver Charm 02/05/2003 02:46PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (794 Views) Alydar in California 02/05/2003 06:25PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (879 Views) Silver Charm 02/07/2003 01:19PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (863 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 01:59PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (753 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 01:59PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (879 Views) Silver Charm 02/07/2003 03:48PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (847 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 03:59PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (900 Views) Silver Charm 02/07/2003 04:19PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (858 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 04:29PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (845 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 04:43PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (896 Views) Alydar in California 02/07/2003 05:05PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (876 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 05:18PM
Idea to End All Ideas (937 Views) Alydar in California 02/08/2003 04:13AM
Re: Date: 02-08-03 04:13 (681 Views) supey 02/08/2003 04:17AM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (861 Views) supey 02/08/2003 04:39AM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (824 Views) bj 02/08/2003 11:11AM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (852 Views) Alydar in California 02/09/2003 07:19AM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (800 Views) bj 02/09/2003 10:57AM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (827 Views) bdhsheets 02/09/2003 03:19PM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (757 Views) TGJB 02/08/2003 12:09PM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (831 Views) supey 02/08/2003 01:30PM
Re: Idea to End All Ideas (797 Views) TGJB 02/08/2003 01:40PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (908 Views) Marc At 02/07/2003 05:47PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (802 Views) TGJB 02/07/2003 06:07PM
Re: Reposting--Friedman fires smoking gun--shoots foot (929 Views) Silver Charm 02/07/2003 04:48PM


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