Your Ask The Experts ID
is separate from your
Order Online Account ID
 Race of the Week:  The Modesty Stakes Churchill May 3, 2024  • 2 Specials Available
Order Online
Buy TG Data
Complete Menu of
TG Data products
Simulcast Books
Customize a Value
Package of Select
TG Data
Sheet Requests
Order The Last Figure for Any Horse
Free Products
Redboard Room
Download and Review previous days' data.
Race of the Week
With detailed comments
ThoroTrack
Email notification when your horse races
Information
Introduction
For newcomers.
Samples and Tutorials
For Horsemen
Consulting services and Graph Racing
Sales Sites
Where to buy TG around the country
Archives
Historical races and handicapping articles
Handicapping
Hall of Fame
Major handicapping contest winners
Home Page
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (798 Views)
Posted by: Marc At (IP Logged)
Date: April 04, 2003 02:52PM

Sigh. One of the most consistently mind-boggling things about the whole TG vs. Ragozin dialogue, to me and others, is the insistence of some that the best way to prove one set of numbers better or worse is to look at these numbers over adverse or unusual track conditions-- sloppy tracks, tracks that are indeed drying out, etc. Virtually any horse player I know who has a clue knows that these off-track performances are *always* the ones you take least seriously in a horse's form cycle... Except, maybe, for 4.5 furlong races.

The latest example of "gotcha" is seemingly Buddy Gil. Not sure how Buddy looks on TG, but on Ragozin, he has a strong 2-yr-old line, developing beautifully down to the 9 level before throwing in two atrocious races in the slop.

Next out, he changes barn to the red-hot Mullins barn, who is clearly using superior feed to whatever Buddy was getting before. He sprints on the turf for the first time.

Could Buddy be a superior turf sprinter? Perhaps.
Is Mullins feeding him something new? Probably.

Buddy Gil runs a 1.5 sprinting on the turf, and then follows it up with a number MUCH more in line with previous efforts, a 5.25. Does that mean that Buddy Gil is bouncing to the moon on Saturday?

No, not in my book. We know how well Mullins is doing, and why would we make so much out of a turf sprint, when looking at this horse's line? Turf sprinting is such a quirky little part of the game, and with no other turf sprints on Buddy's resume, it's literally the single number on all of the Ragozin Santa Anita Derby PPs that means the least to me.

The 5+ that follows means a lot more. Within the context of the rest of his line, it's 4 points past his 2-yr-old top, and I think he has a decent shot of pairing it. I view his line neutrally. Not a horse I'd key, and from what I gather, not a horse most TG players would key either. Gotcha, indeed.

Though a bit little slower than a few others, Ocean Terrace's Ragozin line makes the most sense to me here. Looks like he's sitting on a breakthrough, and he should save ground. Very wide open race and I lean towards exacta boxes with MWC, Logician, the favorite (defensive use here), and perhaps, yes, Buddy Gil.

Last comment: To me, on Ragozin, Kafwain is a pretty serious bet against. Guess what? I know at least a couple Ragozin players who disagree completely, who think Baffert will get one more effort out of him... I love the confidence with which you guys pronounce Buddy's line as "negative" on Ragozin. More than one way to read these things, huh?



Subject Written By Posted
Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (1469 Views) Silver Charm 04/02/2003 04:36PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (745 Views) bdhsheets 04/02/2003 04:57PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (689 Views) dpatent 04/02/2003 05:52PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (743 Views) Silver Charm 04/03/2003 10:32AM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (699 Views) dpatent 04/03/2003 05:36PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (768 Views) Michael D. 04/03/2003 06:27PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (851 Views) TGJB 04/03/2003 06:59PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (848 Views) Catalin 04/03/2003 10:04PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (786 Views) Silver Charm 04/04/2003 11:02AM
correction on Eastern Echo (774 Views) magicnight 04/04/2003 01:17PM
Re: correction on Eastern Echo (788 Views) Silver Charm 04/04/2003 03:14PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (798 Views) Marc At 04/04/2003 02:52PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (773 Views) TGJB 04/04/2003 03:40PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (790 Views) Marc At 04/04/2003 04:23PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (734 Views) TGJB 04/04/2003 04:40PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (785 Views) Silver Charm 04/04/2003 05:04PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (795 Views) Marc At 04/04/2003 05:09PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (821 Views) Marc At 04/04/2003 05:04PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (815 Views) TGJB 04/04/2003 06:11PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (745 Views) Michael D. 04/04/2003 08:13PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce??--Is Friedman crazy?? (704 Views) HP 04/04/2003 09:17PM
Domestic Dispute in the SA Derby (769 Views) derby1592 04/03/2003 06:43PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (702 Views) Frank 04/04/2003 11:37PM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (686 Views) Bystander 04/05/2003 01:00AM
Re: Will Buddy Gill Bounce?? (764 Views) TGJB 04/05/2003 12:27PM


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.

Thoro-Graph 180 Varick Street New York, NY 10014 ---- Click here for the Ask The Experts Archives.