Your Ask The Experts ID
is separate from your
Order Online Account ID
 Race of the Week:  2024 Kentucky Oaks/Derby Days Final Figures Churchill Downs May 3 & May 4, 2024 
Order Online
Buy TG Data
Complete Menu of
TG Data products
Simulcast Books
Customize a Value
Package of Select
TG Data
Sheet Requests
Order The Last Figure for Any Horse
Free Products
Redboard Room
Download and Review previous days' data.
Race of the Week
With detailed comments
ThoroTrack
Email notification when your horse races
Information
Introduction
For newcomers.
Samples and Tutorials
For Horsemen
Consulting services and Graph Racing
Sales Sites
Where to buy TG around the country
Archives
Historical races and handicapping articles
Handicapping
Hall of Fame
Major handicapping contest winners
Home Page
Figure Study (1066 Views)
Posted by: TGJB (IP Logged)
Date: July 16, 2006 10:14PM

Okay, Del Mar opens this week, and with it the Thoro-Graph/Ragozin figure study. When this was brought up on the Ragozin board, Len Friedman said there should be 3 solid ground rules, and I agree:

1) The parameters of the study should be announced publicly in advance, meaning which tracks will be included, and for what time period.

2) The length of the study must be sufficient.

3) The study, once started, must be finished.

I agree with all those conditions. The tracks and time periods covered will be the Del Mar and Saratoga meets, which between them will have somewhere around 700 races.

Here's the way we will do it-- we will take the last 3 figures from both services run by every horse on the surface he will run on today (turf or dirt), no matter when they occured. We will throw out the worst one, and average the other two to create a rough power rating for each horse. If they have only run twice we'll average them, once, we'll use that one.

We will then adjust the ratings for the weight each horse carries in the race, and rank them in order of power ratings for each service. After the races are run, the service that has the winner ranked higher gets a point. At the end of the study, the side that has the most points wins. If the winner was a first time starter (or first grass or first time in this country, etc.), we go to the second horse, but no further-- it should be about who runs fast, not who runs okay.

As to how the mechanics will work-- George will put together a file and post it on this site daily in advance of racing with our ratings and rankings (and since we sell the sheets in advance and have the Red Board Room, anyone can check to see if we made a mistake or cheated). Tom (Alydar, Janis Joplin, etc.) will check what we post, and do the work to create comparable ratings and rankings for Ragozin, which he will post in advance on both sites and e-mail to me and Friedman. (What Tom is getting out of this is free sheets for both tracks from both services, which means I'm paying for a lot of Ragozin sheets-- ugh). Tom will also make the adjustments later for the overweights, and post a running score on both sites.

A few comments--

1-- I would like to keep things simple and focused, but I am open to any suggestions that Len has about how to do the study. There are issues here of both fairness and credibility.

2-- This is not a betting study-- we're doing it this way because patterns are very subjective, and different guys using the same data can (and do) have different opinions. But in the long run, fast horses will beat slower horses, and this study is designed to find who is more accurate in determining who the faster horses are. (Also, patterns are no more accurate than the figures they are based on, so if it becomes clear from the study that one set of figures is more accurate, conclusions can also be drawn about the accuracy of patterns).

3-- Because the data will be posted on an ongoing basis daily, anyone that wants to can do whatever other studies they want to (win %, ROI etc.). But the primary study is the one we are doing, because it creates a winner for one side in every race, making the sample size significant-- having to have the winner on top creates more randomness and more cause for argument (especially if someone bet the winner because they thought it "looked good", and it wasn't listed on top).

4-- Some of you stat guys might have an opinion about what would constitute a meaningful result, but in my opinion anything less than a 52/48 edge would not be significant enough for anyone to brag about. If someone ends up 50 points ahead, however...






Subject Written By Posted
Figure Study (1066 Views) TGJB 07/16/2006 10:14PM
Re: Figure Study (626 Views) BitPlayer 07/17/2006 07:10PM
Re: Figure Study (673 Views) TGJB 07/17/2006 07:35PM
Re: Figure Study (517 Views) colin 07/18/2006 01:13PM
Re: Figure Study (609 Views) bjt 07/18/2006 05:43AM
Re: Figure Study (545 Views) texasdolly 07/18/2006 01:41PM
Re: Figure Study (599 Views) TGJB 07/18/2006 04:40PM
Re: Figure Study (556 Views) Thehoarsehorseplayer 07/18/2006 06:38PM
Re: Figure Study (591 Views) TGJB 07/18/2006 06:51PM
Re: Figure Study (550 Views) marcus 07/18/2006 09:10PM
Re: Figure Study (549 Views) NoCarolinaTony 07/18/2006 11:36PM
Re: Figure Study (528 Views) NoCarolinaTony 07/18/2006 11:49PM
Re: Figure Study (524 Views) NoCarolinaTony 07/19/2006 12:01AM
Re: Figure Study (549 Views) NoCarolinaTony 07/19/2006 12:06AM
Re: Figure Study (537 Views) TGJB 07/19/2006 02:44PM
Re: Figure Study (533 Views) Michael D. 07/19/2006 04:20PM
Re: Figure Study (538 Views) marcus 07/19/2006 09:28AM
Re: Figure Study (551 Views) davidrex 07/19/2006 11:43AM
Re: Is it just me (595 Views) gatodelsol 07/19/2006 10:06AM
Re: Is it just me (559 Views) NoCarolinaTony 07/19/2006 04:06PM
Re: Is it just me (581 Views) TGJB 07/19/2006 04:35PM
Re: Is it just me (486 Views) NoCarolinaTony 07/19/2006 05:39PM
Re: Is it just me (553 Views) TGJB 07/19/2006 05:50PM
Re: Is it just me (569 Views) Michael D. 07/19/2006 07:51PM


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.

Thoro-Graph 180 Varick Street New York, NY 10014 ---- Click here for the Ask The Experts Archives.