TreadHead Wrote:
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> While it has certainly happened in past Derbies,
> the horses that make that move are almost always
> deep closers like MTB and [b]Giacamo[/b] who have been
> racing all spring on speed-favoring tracks and
> become unleashed on the fairer and more demanding
> CD surface, and not speed horses like Chitu.


Didn't you tell me that CC ran on the "new dirt"?? You even made a smart ass comment about storing all of the old dirt in dump trucks. Here is your quote..


[b]"PDub, not sure if you are suggesting that Santa Anita put the dirt from the old track into dump trucks for 3 years and then simply replaced it when the time came, and I really hope you aren't trying to dumb down the discussion to say "dirt is dirt", because either of those are obviously ridiculous.

From everything I read, SA went to great lengths to come up with a new "state-of-the-art" dirt surface for the replacement. I'm in no position to judge the significance of the difference between old and new, but it factually is different, which to me means that using horses that ran over the old surface (let alone horses that ran nearly 2 decades ago) is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion I'm trying to have."[/b]

You mean a horse like Giacomo???

You stated that CC ran on an extremely glib surface (new dirt) and that the horses I mentioned, including Giacomo, ran on the "old dirt". Thus, they didn't matter when talking about Cal horses that ran exclusively in California and ran well in Kentucky. Your words not mine. Actually, your word was irrelevant. I mentioned Silver Charm, a Derby winner that ran in the first flight. Nah, doesn't matter. That was over the "old dirt".

Now you mention how Giacomo raced on a speed favoring track some 10+ years ago, was "unleashed" with great success at CD, after you went to great lengths to tell us how the dirt is different at SA today than it was 5 years ago and later.

And I'm the one that is "mentally challenged" and "dumb down the discussion".

If you're going to include Giacomo as a horse that ran over a "speed favoring" track, then include the other horses that ran over the same surface that had success. Many that weren't closers, that in fact (I know how you love that word - fact and factually) ran on or near the lead.

Winning Colors, Silver Charm, and others ran close to the pace and replicated that form in Kentucky. They ran over "speed favoring tracks. Its apparent the only horses relevant to your discussions are those that validate your opinion, as opposed to those that don't.

You have no idea whether or not CC will handle the surface, any more than you can predict that any other horse will either. You're guessing, and trying to convince yourself otherwise by tailoring facts that fit your opinion. You're the type of person that back fits data, then thinks he's come up with a profitable handicapping system.

P-Dub