Your Ask The Experts ID
is separate from your
Order Online Account ID
 Race of the Week:  The Modesty Stakes Churchill May 3, 2024  • 2 Specials Available
Order Online
Buy TG Data
Complete Menu of
TG Data products
Simulcast Books
Customize a Value
Package of Select
TG Data
Sheet Requests
Order The Last Figure for Any Horse
Free Products
Redboard Room
Download and Review previous days' data.
Race of the Week
With detailed comments
ThoroTrack
Email notification when your horse races
Information
Introduction
For newcomers.
Samples and Tutorials
For Horsemen
Consulting services and Graph Racing
Sales Sites
Where to buy TG around the country
Archives
Historical races and handicapping articles
Handicapping
Hall of Fame
Major handicapping contest winners
Home Page
Re: form cycles (406 Views)
Posted by: HP (IP Logged)
Date: June 01, 2005 04:15PM

Saddle,

When you look at the "solid figs" from year-to-year, I'm assuming that the horse is not breaking through his/her top. So it ran a 10 top as a 2yo and a 10 top as a 3yo? Here are some questions/issues...

Is the horse reacting to top efforts? How much? Is the horse reacting LESS to top efforts as a 3yo than it was as a 2yo? This may signal some progress to come... Is he reacting MORE to the top efforts? May be a bad sign.

I will tolerate some bouncing around as a 2yo. The older the horse gets, the less extreme reactions to tops I want to see. The more they react to tops the longer it's going to take them to get back to the top and the more unlikely they are to move on to a new top. For me it's much harder to guage the 2-3yo jump than it is to guess the 3-4yo jump. Ten point jumps off breaks aren't uncommon for first out 3yos. You don't see as many of those with first out 4yos.

I like to see 4yos that come back a point better than their 3yo top. With 3yos, I like to see them come back to their 2yo top right away. If they do that, I'm willing to make some allowances in the time it takes for them to move up, provided they don't bounce to the moon in the meantime.

I think a long layoff, frequent layoffs or infrequent starts mean improvement is less likely. Improving, healthy horses run on a regular basis, like every three or four weeks, and they should be able to run for a couple of months without falling apart. If a 2-3yo is not running on a regular basis there is usually something up. A guy is not going to keep a top quality horse on the shelf for nothing! If you look at a 4yo and hasn't broken through his 3yo top and he's the type of horse that runs two races every six months or so, he probably is not going to run a new top.

There are a few exceptions to this, most notably at the very top of the scale, where you have very fast horses that can crank it up every once in awhile, but in your everyday run of the mill race card, I would give the steady eddie type more of a chance to improve than the horse that has shown flashes of brilliance and spent a lot of time doing nothing.

Also, there are quite a few turf horses that will throw you for a loop at 5 or so. I think routers are more likely to be late bloomers than sprinters.

I'll tell you one expensive lesson I've learned - there are VERY FEW trainers who you can really count on to have a horse ready to win off a 90+ day layoff, especially going two turns. I think most layoffs come out of necessity (there's something wrong or the horse needs a rest) as opposed to design (the guy is going to crank the horse and win off a layoff). By the time the horse is 4yo, you should have a good read on his "layoff pattern" and be able to see if something may be wrong.

Good luck!

HP



Subject Written By Posted
Pomeroy (696 Views) p3991r 05/29/2005 09:25PM
Re: Pomeroy (384 Views) p3991r 05/29/2005 09:27PM
Re: Pomeroy (361 Views) Chuckles_the_Clown2 05/30/2005 11:27AM
Re: Pomeroy (354 Views) TGJB 05/30/2005 01:09PM
Re: Pomeroy (334 Views) p3991r 05/30/2005 04:38PM
Re: Pomeroy (358 Views) Saddlecloth 05/31/2005 12:14PM
Re: Pomeroy (362 Views) gvido 06/01/2005 01:22PM
form cycles (387 Views) Saddlecloth 06/01/2005 02:28PM
Re: form cycles (371 Views) 06/01/2005 03:03PM
Re: form cycles (422 Views) Upper Nile 06/01/2005 03:30PM
Re: form cycles (406 Views) HP 06/01/2005 04:15PM
Re: form cycles (353 Views) Saddlecloth 06/01/2005 05:16PM
Re: form cycles (366 Views) 06/01/2005 06:08PM
Re: form cycles/4th HOL 6/2 (394 Views) HP 06/01/2005 10:52PM
Re: form cycles/4th HOL 6/2 (336 Views) 06/02/2005 08:56AM
Re: form cycles/4th HOL 6/2 (358 Views) HP 06/02/2005 09:20AM
Re: form cycles/4th HOL 6/2 (321 Views) 06/02/2005 01:09PM
Re: form cycles/4th HOL 6/2 (385 Views) TGJB 06/02/2005 01:20PM
Re: form cycles/4th HOL 6/2 (356 Views) 06/02/2005 01:40PM
Re: form cycles/4th HOL 6/2 (369 Views) TGJB 06/02/2005 01:53PM
Re: Thoro Patterns (455 Views) Upper Nile 06/02/2005 02:58PM
Re: Thoro Patterns (421 Views) TGJB 06/02/2005 03:19PM
Re: Thoro Patterns (377 Views) Saddlecloth 06/02/2005 03:32PM


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.

Thoro-Graph 180 Varick Street New York, NY 10014 ---- Click here for the Ask The Experts Archives.