richiebee wrote:

> ctc:
>
> What is sneaky about his breeding? His pop won 2/3s of the
> TC.

First off let me say dosage deserves the lowest position on the totem pole. Additionally though Charismatics dosage is high, I think hes got some nice breeding in his pedigree. Notably no Mr. Prospector....Now:

Charismatic has not been a boom at stud. Sun King is by far and away his best to date:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?h=charismatic2&g=5&query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&done=y&inbred=Standard&x2=n&username=&password=&x=0&y=0

SunKing is even sneakier on the dam side, scoring a low dosage of about 1.8 with a niceish CD and the dam has gotten far more than Charismatic:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/clever+but+costly


http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?h=clever+but+costly&g=5&query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&done=y&inbred=Standard&x2=n&username=&password=&x=0&y=0

As good a producer as the dam has been however. I think her foals have had some distance limitations (Surprise...most do) I do think Traitor was a good horse that got hurt if my memory serves. Though I don't think he won over a mile.


>
> I have been reading the Form since
>
> I am really grappling with the fact that Sun King's no
> factor BG effort earned him a TG # of 2 (Beyer 88), while High
> Fly's Fla Derby win was a TG# of 1 (Beyer 102).
>
> I'm going to respond to your Sun King post using numbers I'm
> more familiar with. If the numbers are wrong, so be it.
>
> Sun King's last race Beyer was 88. His Beyer at Tampa was 91.
> As we all know, Sea Hero was the last horse to win Ky Derby
> w/out Beyering over 100 in his last prep before the Derby. (Sea
> Hero Beyered 91 running 4th in the BG.)
>
> Sea Hero gives hope to Wilko and Noble Causeway supporters,

I would point out Sea Hero had won a Grade 1 as a two year old and had a back number to improve on. I think he finally did it Derby Day. Additionally, he didn't have to jump over so many other quality figures by others is my recollection. His Blue Grass was right there with an excuse. I had Sea Hero that year. He figured big as far as I was concerned.



>I can not remember a year when some many animals are
> coming in off last race wins,

Thats got me scratching my head.

>in some cases dominant wins.

I agree with the proceeding

> Surprisingly, only 4 of the last 12 Derby winners won their
> final prep: Smarty, War Emblem, FuPeg and Sun King's pop,
> Charismatic.

ok 4 of the last 12....but 4 of the last 6...remember we are in the modern age of handicapping
>



Post Edited (04-25-05 20:48)